'The candidate at the center, we still forget that too much'

Bright Spots 2023

Steven Gudde, Olympia: “What I hope: that the conference on the labor market for logistics organizations will take place next year. I noticed that logistics organizations have been saying for years that they don't know how to retain people. But at the same time, the conference on this topic was canceled in 2023 due to lack of interest. I hope these organizations will realize that they need to invest in human capital if they want to make progress.”

Martin Westerhof, Circle8: “Many organizations claim: there is extreme scarcity. But let's especially look together at how we can be creative. It's about processes and digitization, of course, but also looking together: how can we train people? I would like clients to take more responsibility in being good employers. We are talking to many to do fair business with each other. You notice that many organizations understand that a pure purchasing strategy – with an extreme focus on the lowest price – is rather short-sighted.”

Nick van der Dussen, Undutchables: “We as an organization specialize in knowledge migrants. On one hand, we still see xenophobic reactions in society, where all migrants are lumped together. On the other hand, we see more and more acceptance, and it is becoming more commonplace. Now, in stores, you are often addressed in English – that change is happening somewhat automatically. During election time, we hear something different than what we see in practice.”

Brian Hickey, Flexwell/HuisartsenHulp: “Looking back at the past year, one trend stands out to me: the truly absurd rise of healthcare personnel working as self-employed. You see that many clients are really fed up with it, but actually don't know how to proceed. With HuisartsenHulp, we offer substitution and recruitment of doctors for short and long periods. We have also translated this into Flexwell, an app that allows all intermediaries to create their own work platform. This aligns with more employers with flexible personnel who feel the need, no, the necessity, to reach that young audience.”

Wouter van Neer, Indeed: “I see a bright spot in temporary employment agencies thinking about branding in the here and now. They are beginning to realize that branding is also a strategy and that they should aim the neon light at themselves. A downside is that I think temp agencies are wasting candidates. If you get 100 applications but don't achieve a placement, how is that possible? If we can't get potatoes out of the ground anymore, we all look at how we can improve the harvest. But in the labor market, we do little with the scarcity. Look again: what can I do with these candidates? What's possible in terms of platforms, retraining, etc.?”

Sepp Haans, Freshheads: “At Freshheads, we get a lot of calls from organizations saying: we want something with platforms too. I see a challenge in it: how do you maintain a relationship with the candidates? My lesson for 2024 is: I still see very often that the vacancy is central, not the candidate. I think there's a big learning curve for the entire field there. The ATS often centers the vacancy. But there are still a lot of people on the sidelines who are not being mediated. I think it is also the market's responsibility to pick them up. What I really like about platforms is that they can make the market more open and transparent. YoungOnes works so well, not only because it's a great brand but also: what you see is what you get. It's very transparent, on both sides.”

Impresario Model

Steven Gudde: “We don't have a labor market problem in the Netherlands, we have an employer problem. They offer less and less of what the labor market wants. Employment agencies must develop on two scenarios. Either they say: candidate, I'll be your employer and impresario, and help you find a job. Or they say: dear client, I'm a service provider and help you properly set up your flexibility. These two scenarios exist alongside each other, but as long as we keep mixing them, we'll get stuck. That's where I think the real problem of our sector lies.”

Sepp Haans: “The whole discussion about the role of intermediaries is also a bit of a chicken-and-egg problem. Intermediaries must also try to keep people in an ecosystem. Platforms have a lot at stake to retain their candidates. My message: just look at the candidate, put them first. I see Indeed as a conduit, where a lot gets lost at the backend. Niche players in the labor market are quite affected by this.”

High tech, high touch

Nick van der Dussen: “High tech, high touch, as we call it.”

Steven Gudde: “Of course, we are making strides there. But it can be improved, I admit immediately. It's also part of your job to offer people perspective – we can still further develop there.”

Wouter van Neer: “It's that eternal discussion in the temp industry about phase C and whether someone is an employee or not. Often, I don't understand the considerations. A candidate with a truck driving license signs up; can't you offer a one-year contract immediately? What are you afraid of?”

Martin Westerhof: “We have a broker function. I don't believe we have that responsibility for professionals. The responsibility for being a good employer lies with the organization, I believe. Our responsibility is to ensure a smooth process.”

Hugo-Jan Ruts, ZiPconomy, discussion leader: “And where do you see the responsibility for further development of the self-employed?”

Martin Westerhof: “That lies more with us. It's up to us to encourage the self-employed to keep developing. It's also a commercial interest. We know exactly when assignments end. So, we know when the self-employed are available again for the next job. But I also say: good clientship also means you're responsible for someone's development. On average, 25% of our clients' workforce is not employed by the organization. I think it's logical to include them in your development plans. And yes, I believe we as brokers must take that step in further developing clientship. But we're also in the volume business. We have 6,000 people working daily, with an average margin of 1.5 euros per hour. In that respect, we're really in a red ocean. All our work is outsourced or tendered. There's little room to do that much extra.”

Retention as Magic Word

Sepp Haans: “I believe the magic word is retention. If you can use people more frequently, you'll always benefit. But you have to do something for that. Platforms like YoungOnes ensure in every way that retention is high and people keep coming back. Those are the winners, I think.”

Nick van der Dussen: “As a niche player, we often see that the temp-to-perm period of 6 months is. But that doesn't happen automatically; that's high touch, as I said. You can automate very procedural things well, but primarily it's about: we find work for you, but also look at the whole person. Then you see that those people come back to you later because your service was just good.”

Steven Gudde: “Indeed, it's not about the transaction or just the right match, but about the relationship. It creates connection. The employment relationship is always about: do I have awesome colleagues, meaningful work that makes my heart beat faster? But you see in our sector that we keep talking about optimizing the transaction. While retention is as fleeting as lightning.”

Brian Hickey: “I think high touch can be perfectly supported by high tech.”

Steven Gudde: “I believe you are stuck in making the match, the transaction. But that match is just the beginning of the journey. I think it should be more about that. The relationship begins after the match.”

Certainty (or not?)

Hugo-Jan Ruts: “So, still that permanent relationship?”

Wouter van Neer: “I don't believe in that. The permanent contract is imposed by society as the basis. But the new generation is really different; they work to live, not the other way around.”

Steven Gudde: “Until children come. Then income certainty suddenly becomes much more important. That has always been the case. It's not necessarily about the contract. It's just that the permanent contract is currently the ticket to the current social system and income certainty. We don't yet have a very good alternative that offers certainty, except for that permanent contract.”

Pieter Leenman, Maqqie: “It must be a choice, of course.”

Steven Gudde: “Of course. But you see that people always look for support and want a framework with that. Call it a marriage, call it a contract. In whatever form.”

Brian Hickey: “The absurd growth of self-employment in healthcare really has no good motivation behind it. It's not that those people wanted to become self-employed; but the conditions for permanent hours were often so poor that they actually saw no other way out. Especially medical assistants are severely underpaid. Healthcare as a whole is suffering because of it. Many people don't know what it means to be an entrepreneur.”

Steven Gudde: “What they get in the employment relationship is therefore not enough, so they take control into their hands. I experienced it myself too. As a part-time teacher, I spent almost as much time in meetings as I did teaching. I didn't go into education for that! Then you start making other choices.”

Hugo-Jan Ruts: “But as you see more and more self-employed who primarily do it for the money, it's not surprising that more MPs think: let's drastically reduce flexibility?”

Wouter van Neer: “If it really happens, I think all of the Netherlands has a big problem. Then you put the whole country to a halt.”

Pieter Leenman: “They partly brought it upon themselves. With the Wet DBA, it went wrong. You don't just fix that.”

Wouter van Neer: “I would involve the industry much more. Look around the table here. There's so much experience sitting here. We know the issues and all know what it means when we put the candidate first. I dare to say, no matter what law comes: it has never been in favor of the candidate. They always seem to be overlooked. We're increasingly moving towards an American system of pay-per-hour, with all the risks on the person. While Europe's strength has always been our social system.”

Steven Gudde: “I understand the strict action in temporary employment, with the required certification. As a sector, we were unable to remove the lesser parties from entrepreneurship on the basis of our supposed self-cleansing ability. With undesirable consequences.”

New Generation

Sepp Haans: “But I do think: government, stop preventing what a new generation wants. They want to work flexibly and experience freedom. This is barely possible with old contract forms. Moving from assignment to assignment like with Temper or YoungOnes is also done to get in touch with different work in the labor market. Normally, under a 'normal' contract, you contribute to social charges, but through these platforms, you can't benefit from them yourself because you don't meet the criteria for benefits, for example. That's strange. That's why being self-employed is still the solution here. It's much better organized in Belgium.”

Martin Westerhof: “That minimum of 35 euros per hour is not so crazy, you know. In sectors like construction, they are often forced to work in a self-employed construction for less. I think it's good they're trying to prevent that a little.”

Brian Hickey: “No one is happy with a medical assistant working as self-employed. As far as I'm concerned, they are pushed into that role; it's not intrinsic motivation. But I also see they want to tackle multiple problems with one solution. That seems very difficult to me.”

Martin Westerhof: “I have already been called by 10 hospitals: we're looking for a broker. They are literally faced with the option: hire a self-employed person or have no one at the bedside. Well, you decide...”

Steven Gudde: “The means they choose, you can have an opinion about. But we must admit that too often the weakest shoulders bear the burdens of the flexible labor market, not the benefits. The government is trying to protect the weaker ones, who are now caught as forced self-employed, but also as poorly regulated flex workers. I understand they want to do something about it.”

Flex Pools and Internal Flex

Hugo-Jan Ruts: “At DeRotterdamseZorg, they said: we're stopping with hiring and setting up a flex pool with our own people. A VMS supplier has built a tool for that. I used to always say: the future of flex is internal flex. Do you recognize yourself in that?”

Martin Westerhof: “Flex is not going away. But I think such solutions can ensure that the candidate comes to the forefront. The Lijnbaan in Rotterdam does something similar with store personnel. I think such collective solutions are very good initiatives.”

Pieter Leenman: “But how large is that internal flex then? Does it extend to other sectors? All over the Netherlands perhaps? If you form that certainty together as employers, from the collective, you're doing well, I think.”

Steven Gudde: “It may sound strange for an employment agency, but I'm a big supporter of internal flex. Now it's almost a reflex to look externally – it seems almost like laziness. I would want external flex to be the result of a conscious choice. I find it very strange that some companies structurally work with 30% flex. You have to wonder if that's really flex or just outsourcing your capacity management externally. Also useful, but you should arrange that differently.”

Pieter Leenman: “I see the market changing as a result of the economic sentiment. Workers are now less quick to take a risk.”

Sepp Haans: “What I find underexposed: the representation of the group of self-employed. There's no good collective defending your interests. I do see solutions like midlance changing the self-employed movement. An organization like Rockstars IT really owns that, the combination of permanent and flex.”

Wouter van Neer: “I find it very striking that in the election programs, no party really dared to tackle this issue. Before, it was one of the top topics, and it was much talked about. They apparently have other things on their minds now.”

Steven Gudde: “In the coming years, we must also discuss the demand side of the labor market. Do we want to maintain or attract all forms of work and industry to the Netherlands? This question is also emerging elsewhere in society. The problems in the labor market have gradually become so significant that tinkering on the sidelines won't make much difference anymore. Drastic measures are needed. This requires something from all of us.”

Contributing to the Dutch Economy

Sepp Haans: “Let's go back to basics. For every hour worked, you have to contribute something to the Dutch economy. Just do that. It sounds very simple, but that's basically what it comes down to. I think we're still ahead in the Netherlands, certainly in the world of technology. I hope more parties in the labor market will look at what tech players have to offer so that the labor market can become even better, more open, and more transparent.”

Wouter van Neer: “The candidate in the center, we forget that too often; that has to improve. We all have to work on that.”

Pieter Leenman: “Yes, but I'm convinced that we can solve this together. With solutions like: no right to a permanent contract before 21, no right to pension accrual. Then you've solved a lot of hassle already.”

Nick van der Dussen: “I'm quite positive for the Dutch economy. High tech, high touch, if we stick to that principle, we'll manage.”

Steven Gudde: “It does touch my heart, I notice. We all have something to gain in this debate, I think. If I look at how many people are still on the sidelines. If you make that your leitmotiv, to offer people something, I certainly see a hopeful future for this sector.”